Six Confirmed Bus and Tube Explosions in Central London

[Rachel]

Many of you are going on about how little the country has done, but, what do you actually expect them to do? What would you do if you had the power?

Have detectors set up on the tube system like in the airports.

you've got to set a mark between safe and still making things practical!

Besides, that may help with the trains, but what about the busses? or like when the IRA were bombing places, they bombed hotels etc. you cant have scanners in the entrance to every building. and even if you did, you can still blow stuff up out side of buildings, or car bombs. if someone wants to blow stuff up, they will!

[Asthaloth]

like i say.
all they are achieving now is to irritate the Soliders who are stuck at home keeping the peace with the Thugs.
the Irish learnt that wasnt such a good idea.
lets hope these attackers do before anything like that incident happens again.

[Matt]

Many of you are going on about how little the country has done, but, what do you actually expect them to do? What would you do if you had the power?

Have detectors set up on the tube system like in the airports.

It's just too impractical. At the peak time on the underground, you have so many people travelling, so there are just too many people for this scheeme to be successful. Most commuters will set of the detectors as well. Coins, jewelry, even clothing can set it off. You'll have to search people's bags, and this will create a massive backlog, as people are having to wait to have their suitcase searched, their rucksack searched. Imagine during the olympics, when there will be a lot more people than the average commute. It's just too impractical.

Also, in each of the underground stations, say you have 5 barriers. Because of the hours, you will need 2 people on each barrier, per shift, and it must b e 2 shifts per day. That's 20 per station. 260 people on the metropolitan line, which is an average line. 12 lines. You expect us to employ about 6,000 people when the police are already understaffed (And you can't expect underground staff with no training to do this - And even if you wanted them to, it would still be virtually impossible, because a large number of underground staff are leaving their job, and morale is very low.) And this is probably too little. You'll need more security officers, becuase there will be more people in a station. Some stations will need more than 5 barriers, as there are more than one entrances.

And then you have the time it takes to actually install these barriers. I can't tell you the exact number, but there must be about 300 stations on the underground, each one equally as likely to be the target of a bomb attack. If you want to install a metal detector in each, it will take an awful lot longer than 2 weeks to get it done.

A large number of you are complaining that the police aren't doing anything, but they are doing everything they can do. There is a large number of high-visibility policing in each of the stations, as well as undercover (as we saw yesterday in Stockwell station, when the undercover officers shot someone suspsected of the bombings). There is a large number of stop and searches going on, which is the best temporary method the police can put in place until something more permanent is done.

[Asthaloth]

as it seems to have been ignored, i'll say it again.
The problem with Internal security is that you onl hear about the failures.
you dont hear "ZomG!!1!!1 we gotsorz theirzorz Bomzorz!!1!1111" every five minutes now do ya

[Trick]

A large number of you are complaining that the police aren't doing anything, but they are doing everything they can do. There is a large number of high-visibility policing in each of the stations, as well as undercover (as we saw yesterday in Stockwell station, when the undercover officers shot someone suspsected of the bombings). There is a large number of stop and searches going on, which is the best temporary method the police can put in place until something more permanent is done.

I don't see a large number complaining. I see a few people saying more needs to be done than saying "stay calm" after a second incident carried out in a state of high alert but that's more of a reflection on how much information should be being shared between police, politicians and the public. I really don't see anywhere these large numbers of people complaining

And yes something more permanent needs to be done, and yes it could involve some method of using metal detectors or searching - the possibility of random occurences of either of these is being discussed. You'd be amazed the level of impracticality people will put up with if it reduces their risk of being blown up, especially when said people are the drivers and staff of the trains who are on them all day long. And most of the people in the press complaining that more needs to be done are referring to the new legislation and making it easier to remove those who incite religious or racial hatred from the country.

As for only hearing about the failures, for the last two years the press have reported in depth about the incidents that have been averted thanks to the work of those in the police force and security services so I certainly don't think that is a problem.

[Asthaloth]

those incidents were publicised because they were carried out by the Police, not MI#
nothing the MI's do is publicised, they are uite often Classified, depending on the situation.

[Trick]

There were plenty of reports of incidents avoided because of their work - they don't have to hand over their reports for people to know it has happened, all you need to do is switch on the news or open a newspaper.

[Asthaloth]

do you really expect MI5/6 to tell you evertime they intercept some idiot carrying a backpack nuke?

hearing that a nutter had walked right into anonymous building X carrying a weapon capeable of leveling most of everything around it would cause more harm to Morale than good.

by nature you dont hear of their exploits.

[Trick]

do you really expect MI5/6 to tell you evertime they intercept some idiot carrying a backpack nuke?

hearing that a nutter had walked right into anonymous building X carrying a weapon capeable of leveling most of everything around it would cause more harm to Morale than good.

by nature you dont hear of their exploits.

And yet the newspapers do. I don't expect them to tell everytime but naturally sometimes people actually notice and then the press are given the correct version of events. You seem very sure that nothing is ever heard of their doings whereas I seem to see it on the bbc, channel 4 news and various papers so best just to leave it at that, seeing as it's not really to do with the topic in question anyway. Repeatedly telling me I haven't heard about things I have isn't going to get anyone very far

[dood]

as it seems to have been ignored, i'll say it again.
The problem with Internal security is that you onl hear about the failures.
you dont hear "ZomG!!1!!1 we gotsorz theirzorz Bomzorz!!1!1111" every five minutes now do ya

You do on the news. "A suspected Al-Qieda member has been arrested on charge of planning an act of terrorism". It's just very rare that they do actually manage to find the people behind possible attacks.

[Matt]

as it seems to have been ignored, i'll say it again.
The problem with Internal security is that you onl hear about the failures.
you dont hear "ZomG!!1!!1 we gotsorz theirzorz Bomzorz!!1!1111" every five minutes now do ya

You do on the news. "A suspected Al-Qieda member has been arrested on charge of planning an act of terrorism". It's just very rare that they do actually manage to find the people behind possible attacks.

HARRY POTTER 6 SPOILER (Scroll & Highlight to read - Sorry about those of you on SubBlack, you'll just have to scroll)


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In Harry Potter, you will know that there is a war with Dumbledore going on. The ministry of Magic arrested the Knight Bus dude for blabbing about secret plans of the Death Eaters. Becuase we know his personality, we know that this is complete rubbish, but if you didn't know him, there would be no way that you knew that this is wrong - You would think that the government are doing a good job.

[Josephine]

The man the police killed the other day was not a suicide bomber.

[sparkygoesforth]

Many of you are going on about how little the country has done, but, what do you actually expect them to do? What would you do if you had the power?

Have detectors set up on the tube system like in the airports.

And from this comment I deduce that you've never been in a London Underground station at 8.45am on a weekday

[Josephine]

Nor was the man in question in any way involved with terror attacks.

[dood]

Many of you are going on about how little the country has done, but, what do you actually expect them to do? What would you do if you had the power?

Have detectors set up on the tube system like in the airports.

And from this comment I deduce that you've never been in a London Underground station at 8.45am on a weekday

yes I have to admit, I was kindof making my descision based on assumptions. The guy who was shot five times in the head...is a very controversial issue, highly worthy of debate. Here's the basic story:
A person walks out of a building which was under suspicion by the police.
He's wearing innappropriate clothes for the time of year.
He's asian.
He tries to get on a train and the police yell at him to stop.
He jumps over the barrier and lunges into the train anyway.
He's tripped and falls over onto the ground.
A policeman leans over him and shoots him five times in the face from 20-30 cms away.

It seems to me like this person was a drug dealer and that the police system have become way too paranoid.